Near Death Experiences - NDE's with Dr. Jan Holden Episode 17
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Are NDE’s (Near Death Experiences) just in our mind? What are some examples of the most evidential and verified NDEs? If people are given a choice during NDEs to come back or not, why did my loved one not choose to come back? What aspect of Anita Moorjani’s NDE case (a very famous case) did Dr. Holden find most fascinating? What does Dr. Holden say about why she doesn’t think NDEs are just our brains way of coping with our terror of death? These are some of the topics discussed by lifelong NDE researcher, Dr. Jan Holden.
Dr. Jan Holden has been researching NDEs (Near Death Experiences) since the 1970’s. In an NDE a person is clinically dead for a certain amount of time before being resuscitated, and they report experiences that usually involve going through a tunnel, being out of body, and seeing deceased loved ones. Dr. Holden shares examples of some highly evidential cases where people gave information that was verified. One example was a patient who knew and described what was going on in the other room in the hospital. In another a patient having an NDE encountered someone who had passed away which ended up being highly evidential as well. A very famous NDE case is Anita Moorjani who wrote the book “Dying to be Me.” This is one of the most remarkable cases as well, and Dr. Holden shares the suspect she finds the most fascinating.
One aspect of NDEs that is consistent among almost all of them are “after effects.” These are the ways people are permanently changed after their NDEs. Dr. Holden shares some examples such as how a person seems to be “electromagnetically charged.” Electronics and lights don’t work properly around them. She shares a conversation she had about that and other after effects with people who have had NDEs. People are also permanently transformed in terms of their life outlook and values. This transformation is profound!
Do people choose to come back during a Near Death Experience? If so why didn’t my loved one choose to come back? Could they?
Many people who come back from an NDE report that they were given a choice to stay on The Other Side or return. They chose to return. Obviously we cannot research and speak with the ones who did not return. This is a touchy subject for those of us in grief. Was our loved one given a choice and if so why didn't OUR loved one choose to return? Dr. Holden addresses her thoughts on that question. While she can only discuss this more from a philosophical perspective, not an evidential one, there is no one more qualified to discuss this topic.
Their talk closes with the most profound message almost all NDErs come away with and how this message profoundly transforms who they are and how they live their lives.
Janice Miner Holden, EdD. Near-Death Experience & Transpersonal Pioneer Researcher. Professor Emerita. Author. IANDS (International Association for Near Death Studies) President. JNDS (Journal of Near Death Studies) Editor.
Darren McEnaney is host of the podcast Seeking I. Like Liz, he takes a logical and science-minded approach to the evidence of an afterlife. He refers to himself as “ “a lay researcher of consciousness focused on anomalous experience and life beyond physical death.”
NDE Researcher - Dr. Janice Holden
Dr. Janice Holden is president of IANDS, International Association for Near Death Studies. She is also very logical and grounded and takes that approach to her NDE research. She has a degree in counselor education, held a private practice, and was a counselor educator at University of North Texas for 31 years until she retired in 2019. She speaks about NDEs with Liz of WTF Just Happened?! and Darren McEnaney of Seeking I who describes himself as a “lay researcher of consciousness focused on anomalous experience and life beyond physical death.”
What is an NDE - Near Death Experience?
Different researchers have different exact definitions of what exactly constitutes an NDE - Near Death Experience. Dr. Holden explains that Dr. Bruce Greyson (a leading researcher) in fact the one Dr. Holden considers THE leading researcher on NDEs tried to get everyone in the field together to come up with a consistent definition, but that never happened. So Dr. Holden’s definition is “this experience happens most often, when a person is either actually close to death, is in the threat of death, or is actually in the first few moments of death such as during cardiac arrest. The experience actually occurs in any of a variety of extreme circumstances..” She explains further about some of these circumstances, all of which are extreme, but not all directly relate to the body confronting death. Then the person can have either one of, or both of, two experiences. Being out of their body where they perceive the material world and their own body, while they are outside, and often floating above, their body. The world looks as it does while they are in their body, just they are perceiving it from a different “location.” This person also has different abilities than when they are limited by their body, such as they can see in any direction. or pass through walls. They also can visit other rooms that their body is not in, such as the waiting room int he hospital where their family is nervously waiting for news. Dr. Holden shares further examples of the NDE experience in what she calls the “material” realm. Then there is the “trans material” domain where they could encounter a tunnel, a light, spirit guides, deceased loved ones…
“Veridical Perception” during Near Death Experiences NDEs - Evidence that NDEs are real.
Dr. Holden’s main area of interest regarding NDE’s are when they are veridical, which means the person experiencing the NDE received information they shouldn't be able to know which was later verified as accurate by a credible source. Some examples are when a person describes stuff that went on in the hospital room.
Seeing deceased loved ones during an NDE
One thing that occurs during veridical NDE’s is a person sometimes sees their deceased loved ones, but this can include loved ones that they had no idea died and who were reasonably young and healthy. For example this deceased loved one died suddenly of a heart attack or car accident. The NDErs living loved ones often do not even know yet that this person has passed away. As far as everyone knows, this person is alive and well. Dr. Holden shares an example of an amazing time this occurred.
How did Dr. Jan Holden become interested in NDEs - Near Death Experiences
Dr. Holden shares her story and how she has always been interested in phenomena we can’t explain. She had read about psychic phenomena and was interested in it since junior high school as a pre-teen. She read about Edgar Casey the sleeping prophet who could diagnose illnesses of people that he never met. She read about mysticism in high school and shared some books which influenced her ands why, such as The Great Soul Trial. As she got older she continued to learn and read about the evidence of an afterlife and studies on psychical research. Dr. Raymond Moody’s book, Life After Life, was the first book she read about NDE’s. While she was working towards her doctoral dissertation in counseling, she was even able to take classes where they studied inexplicable phenomena such as near death experiences, psychic phenomena, Stanislav Graf's discoveries from LSD research about the realms of the human unconscious moving into domains beyond the material. She was so intrigued that Dr. Holden finally decided to do her final dissertation on NDE’s. Then she was hooked on the topic.
The Self Does Not Die - Veridical Perception in NDEs. What do doctors have to say about NDEs?
Dr. Jan Holden continued her work on NDEs. She was an editor for a great book on NDE’s - The Self Does Not Die. “Veridical Perception” is when anything the person who has an NDE perceives is later verified. This book, The Self Does Not Die, contains over 100 cases of verified paranormal phenomena associated with NDE’s. In most of these cases this phenomena was verified by physicians or surgeons who were there during the medical crises that caused the NDE. What’s so amazing is these physicians have incentive to NOT report this phenomena since most of them are materialists who do not even believe NDE’s are real.
De. Eben Alexander and Anita Moorjani
While there are a few famous Near Death Experience cases, such as Dr. Eben Alexander and Anita Moorjani, there are so many lesser known cases. Many people do experience NDE’s but they don’t get blown up in the media. When so many cases come together, that helps make an argument against the idea that these are all just made up anecdotal stories. As Dr. Bruce Greyson says, all research begins with cases. Then when cases come together to show some kind of pattern, then you have something that is worthy of attention.
Consistent Traits of NDEs, Near Death Experiences:
No longer fear death
They become less materialistic
They become more empathic
They become more interested in spirituality and less interested in religion
They develop psychic abilties
They develop healing abilities
They can develop changes in their dietary needs, metabolism, and sensitivity to medications or allergens.
Along with the veridical perceptions, the consistent after effects of NDE’s also show string evidence. These after effects are consistent in thousands of people all around the world. While not everyone who is resuscitated from physical death has an NDE, the percent that do report one have consistency. They report being out of their body and experiencing and perceiving certain aspects of the material and non-material world. But they also report “after effects.” Ways that they are changed after their NDE. One way is that they no longer fear death. One describes dying as “like walking from one room to the next.”
People who have had an NDE become much less materialistic. They also become a lot more empathic. They are much more concerned about the planet, other people, and animals. Spirituality becomes much more important to people who have had NDE’s, while at the same time organized religion becomes much less important. Many NDE experiencers come back with psychic abilities. They can see the future, they have such profound empathy for other people, that they know what's going on in another person's life just by being near them, or thinking about them. And sometimes, people develop healing abilities. Many now feel like they have one foot in this world and one in the next.
They also have physical changes, such as a change in metabolism, they become more sensitive to medication and to allergens in the environment. Some need less sleep.
NDErs Affect Electronics
One of the most interesting and consistent traits of NDErs, is that they seem to affect electronics and electricity. Electrical appliances often act wonky, go on and off, or even break around them. Many do not wear watches which always seem to break or the battery drains quickly. Dr. Holden shares a story and conversation she as with an experiencer who explains how they have always impacted electronics.
People come back transformed after NDEs - Near Death Experiences
Along with all of the physical changes described above, people come back profoundly changed. This can have tremendous impact on their lives since they often feel like a new person with a different set of values. They can often end up divorced, since their values no longer align with their spouses values. These changes can also change family dynamics and friendships. Having to integrate these changes can be really difficult at first.
Can people choose to come back or stay on the other side when they have an NDE?
When Liz asks Dr Holden to share one NDE story she finds most remarkable, she shares a piece from one of the most famous cases, Anita Moorjani’s. This remarkable aspect showed how death and recovery work so differently than we understand. It also shows that our consciousness has the power to affect matter and that many people are given the choice during their NDE to either cross over or to come back to this life.
This is not always the easiest topic to discuss since we wonder why our loved one didn’t choose to come back. Were they given a choice? Liz certainly likes to think her dad would not have left her if he had any choice in the matter. And what about people who are 100 years old? Surely not everyone can have a choice. While this gets more into philosophy than data and science, Dr. Holden gives her very educated opinion on this topic.
Are NDE’s created by our brain to help us cope with the fear of death?
Many neuroscientists think this. And if NDE’s are fact, rather than a fantasy in our brain coping with death, why doesn’t everyone report having one. If it was fact, wouldn't this be consistent? Dr. Holden discusses this as well as how NDE’s and OBEs (out of body experiences) that can occur during a spiritual meditation for example. The two seem to have a lot of consistencies. Dr. Holden thinks that both give us the experience of genuinely separating from our bodies. Possibly the fear of death helps that separation, as well as death itself. Both intense OBEs and NDE’s can have the same after effects and results as well. Dr. Holden delves further into her thoughts on this topic.
She also delves into why she does not think the material explanations for NDE’s such as the above mentioned fear, or lack of oxygen to the brain explain NDE’s. She does share which argument against NDE’s being just a fantasy of the brain is most difficult to dispute, but why she still thinks this argument against NDE’s is not valid.
Will NDEs become more common as medicine becomes better?
It would make sense that more and more people will end up reporting NDEs as medicine improves. We should be able to resuscitate more people and people who are further along in death. But that is not necessarily the case. since drugs and anesthesia might interfere with remembering NDEs. So as drugs improve and the use of them increases, the opposite could occur,. But this is all speculative.
Why if we live and are conscious before and after death, do we not remember? If that is part of who we are, shouldn’t we “know.”
Dr. Holden makes sure we are clear this is now all very speculative, not scientific, but she has often wondered why would we be put here and have our memory erased. She offers some ideas of why this could be, such as that this is like a school. And we need to be focused on the here and now to learn, not past lives, or future lives and other dimensions.
“What near death, experiencers say is that we are here for a purpose. And the purpose is to advance in our capacity to love.”
Notes and Resources:
Anita Moorjani
- Dying to be Me
Dr. Bruce Grayson
DOPS - Division of Perceptual Studies - UVA
Dr. Eben Alexander
Edgar Casey
The Great Soul Trial
IANDS
Peak in Darien
Dr. Raymond Moody
Society for Psychical Research
- American Society for Psychical Research
The Self Does Not Die
Dr. Stanislav Grof
Veridical Perception